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Forum:What are good changes the TV series made?
I've been discussing "worst changes the TV series made" in the polls, and was asked what a "good changes" list would be like. Unfortunately I've been wracking my brains over what exactly "Good" changes were. The problem is that you only really notice when they do something wrong, when in all fairness, we sort of ignore when they manage to pull things off rather well. Technically, even "omissions" can be "Good"...or rather, "Condensations" which were handled very well -- these books were designed to be unfilmable. That is, George R.R. Martin threw caution to the wind and intentionally ignored all of the "rules" about writing a book with an eye towards adaptation some day - such as having more than one character with the same name (there's more than one "Jon", "Brandon", and "Robert" in an entire continent), having massive battle scenes which could never physically be produced on a TV budget, having extensive flashbacks and backstories which a TV series might find difficult, and also focusing on the extremely realistic but somewhat mundane concerns of "running the realm", i.e. the debt crisis with the Iron Bank of Braavos (though that last one really embodies a major point of the novels, which is to be a very "gritty and realistic" take on the Fantasy genre. The whole thing that just because Robert won the throne on the battlefield doesn't mean he has any idea how to run the crown's finances). So this is an open question: what do people think were "Good" changes or condensations that the TV writers made? I'm making this list with an eye towards one day forming a poll out of it. This is of course subjective: on the "worst changes" poll I put "the Season 2 storyarc changing Jeyne Westerling into Talisa and the coinciding changes in Robb Stark and Catelyn Stark's storylines"....did anyone think the TV version was better? Even "necessary"? It usually tops lists of worst changes they produced (it is strongly theorized that they changed course mid-stream, that they intended for Talisa to actually be a spy, but later changed their minds...which I think is worse, because it feels aimless). The only things I could think of off the top of my head were....basically, the writers hewed very closely to the book in the unaired Pilot episode...and deeply regretted it. By all accounts the whole thing was an exposition-heavy infodump that didn't flow well at all. The entire criticism, of course, is that...this is the "art of writing" -- it wasn't a choice between one or the other. It is possible to work in good exposition AND make for compelling television -- instead of just long lectures about backstories. Again, just because something was changed doesn't necessarily make it "good" or "bad" - parts were unfilmable for budget and time reasons. The only two things I could think of off the top of my head were also very general: 1 - Actually showing the perspectives of factions who were not POV characters in the novels, such as the Tyrells. This isn't so much "one" thing as a large collection of things, but easily the largest change the TV series did. Instead of strictly following Martin's format, they chose to actually have the omniscient camera follow every faction. None of the members of House Tyrell are POV narrators in the novels, so we only fleetingly see Margaery, Loras, and Olenna through the eyes of characters such as Sansa or Catelyn Stark. Most of what the Tyrells are doing in the TV series was implied to be "happening" in the novels, just "off-screen" -- so the general motivations and actions are the same, but specific dialogue is not. The TV series, of course, often "follows" the "POV" of the same POV narrators the books did, because they're major characters. The Night's Watch stories generally follow Jon Snow and Samwell Tarly. Daenerys is the centerpiece of her own storylines - though in Season 4 they did start giving Missandei and Grey Worm more to do unrelated to her, nice to show they have lives outside of her. So Missandei/Grey Worm is another one. ...I suppose you could say that they also "show" what Robb was doing off-screen, for a bit anyway (Catelyn leaves Robb at the end of episode 2.1 but returns in 2.6...it wasn't that long). Benioff and Weiss constantly claim that they were "just showing what Robb did off-screen" -- no, that's a separate category entirely. Even Martin himself specifically pointed out that "Talisa" is not what was going on "off-screen" but a major change from events in the novels -- not just a perspective shift. Either way it doesn't count here. Point is that Catelyn always narrated the Robb chapters in the novels, and for the most part Robb scenes in the TV series usually contained Catelyn in or near them. Not that drastic of a POV shift. Somewhat similarly, Stannis isn't a guy who opens up about his inner emotions a lot, so fittingly, the books don't have him as a POV narrator - Davos narrates his chapters. Mostly the Stannis scenes in the TV series usually happen to have Davos in them anyway, because he's a major advisor, so there's some overlap. Yeah...so for the most part, the biggest ones affected by this were "House Tyrell" (which I'm extending here to include Renly, because his scenes usually involve Loras or Margaery). This extends to a few other bits (i.e. Missandei/Grey Worm subplot outside of Daenerys is nice, little things like showing Roose Bolton discussing events with Walder Frey to make their intentions clearer, etc.) This was technically a change from the letter of the books, but not the spirit of the books -- they were events that occurred "off screen". This was a lesson they learned after the pilot episode presented everything too literally (even, say, Jackson's Lord of the Rings adaptation, even the parts very faithful to the novels, didn't word for word copy the events of major sequences which didn't lend themselves well to cinema, i.e. cutting down the Council of Elrond to its essentials). The only other point I could think of was: 2 - Actually focusing on the debt crisis plotline and heavily featuring the Iron Bank of Braavos. This isn't even really a "change", but I was watching a video the other day in which Benioff and Weiss were discussing the Iron Bank of Braavos and how the whole thing might not seem "cinematic" or lend itself well to television, seemingly boring "governance" stuff, but they really recognized it was such a major part of what made Martin's world what it is: gritty and realistic, with realistic problems like "just because you win battles doesn't mean you know how finances work". How many other times did Aragorn discuss his tax policy? (as Martin said) So I thought on it, and I realized: MANY other filmmakers would have cut the crown debt subplot out entirely -- or, if that was impossible (it is a major factor in the war), they would cut it down to the bare minimum. Instead, Benioff and Weiss started mentioning it by name in Season 3, and prominently introduced it in Season 4, with a full set and everything, plus many other characters such as Tywin, Cersei, and Olenna devoting significant time to discussing it. And in Season 5 it will be an even bigger focus, indeed a central focus. So I want to make a running list of this, but what are "good" changes that the TV series made? --The Dragon Demands (talk) 23:56, March 22, 2015 (UTC) Running list of (potentially) "Good changes" that the TV series made in adaptation *Actually showing the perspectives of characters and factions who were not POV narrators in the books, in which their actions occurred largely "off-screen": most prominently the members of House Tyrell (including their ally Renly), along with other characters and moments such as Missandei and Grey Worm actually having scenes separate from Daenerys, actually showing Littlefinger and Varys having discussions away from Tyrion, ...indeed, actually showing the White Walkers away from people in Season 4, etc. The writers could have chosen to stay more strictly to the POV chapter format of the novels, but chose to show the "events" within the narrative as a TV series can. *While not strictly a change, choosing to prominently feature the debt crisis subplot with the Iron Bank of Braavos, recognizing that it is a key feature of Martin's realistic depiction of Westeros, when many other filmmakers would have cut it for being uncinematic. *Having Arya serve as Tywin's cupbearer rather than Bolton's, and the whole dynamic between the two. Not sure how you feel about this, but I rank this change very highly.--The White Winged Fury 08:37, March 23, 2015 (UTC) :::Was literally just trying to edit this to suggest the exact same thing, some of the best scenes in the show were between these two in my opinion. - Son Of Fire (talk) 08:48, March 23, 2015 (UTC)